Сейчас название "Намер" ("Нагмаш Меркава") занято БРЭМ на базе "Меркава" - о ней у нас отдельная тема.
Тяжёлые БТР в Израиле
- Автор темы Serge Pod
- Дата начала
Снять башню и вынуть боеукладку и системы - несложно и недорого. В цену входят:Не проще ли ничего не снимать и использовать как БТР или БМД, вместо того, чтобы платить 750000 за снос башни, тем более, что я читал, что у "Меркавы" в башне можно вместо части боекомплекта чуть ли не несколько носилок размещать?
1) новое бронирование крыши;
2) перепланировка боевого отделения, установка различного оборудования для нужд пехоты;
3) стоимость OWS (может и не одной);
4) возможно, капитальный ремонт, а возможно даже и модернизация ходовой части.
Может ещё что-то.
Цена 750 000 не совсем отпугивающия, т.к часть денег вернётся в бюджет ввиде налога.
К тому же по радио сегоня слышел известие о покупке у немцев 100 колёсных БТР на сумму 50 миллионов зелёных.
Выходит по 500 000 за штуку - где логика ?
Может только если финансирование какое-то хитрое ?
К тому же по радио сегоня слышел известие о покупке у немцев 100 колёсных БТР на сумму 50 миллионов зелёных.
Выходит по 500 000 за штуку - где логика ?
Может только если финансирование какое-то хитрое ?
Я думаю - одной, т.к. OWS- штука не дешевая, а главное - включает польт управления. Две просто некуда будет воткнуть.
Максимум - добавяt пулемет с перископом.
Вообще неплохо бы OWS мощный устроить, а не такой, как на картинке - с пулеметом.
Лучше - OWS(protected WS), иначе раздолбают быстро во время уличных столкновений.
Хотя зная работничков МАЗИ, особой логики в этом деле ждать не приходится.
ХВ, а чего непонятного-то? Румыны вошли в НАТО. Израиль сольет им устаревшее, но нато-стандартед барахло, на означенную сумму обновив свой "гардероб". В итоге Румыны как бы покупают с дисконтом, а евреи как всегда всех нае... ![]:)](/fora/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/smilies_new/evilgreen.png "Evil ]:)")
А вообще странная это идея с Намер"ом. Зачем БТРу броня способная выдержать БПС? Бэха шустро двигаться должна, при этом не быть гробиком на колесах. Или на шасси Мк1 и новый корпус поставят?
А вообще странная это идея с Намер"ом. Зачем БТРу броня способная выдержать БПС? Бэха шустро двигаться должна, при этом не быть гробиком на колесах. Или на шасси Мк1 и новый корпус поставят?
энивэй, на пользу израильской промышленности.
Я их и имел в виду.
Затратно и невыгодно. Разница в очень многом, и сделать новый танк легче и дешевле.
Такого вообще в природе не видел. Не доводят Лео1 до Лео2, М60 до М1 и т.д.
Только модернизации начинки и оружия производятся, еесли платформа хорошая: М1А1 на М1А2, Лео2А5 на Лео2А6 и т.д.
Например Канаде upgrade Лео1А4 на Лео1C2 стоил дороже новых танков.
Мк1 был первый наш танк со всеми минусами.
Мк2 отличается и корпусом и башней и начинкой.
Когда надо переделывать корпус - легче новый танк построить.
Вообще модели Меркавы в сущности разные танки одной компановки.
Можно некоторые решения с новога использовать для старого,
например защиту и прочие детали, но не более того.
Мк2 отличается и корпусом и башней и начинкой.
Когда надо переделывать корпус - легче новый танк построить.
Вообще модели Меркавы в сущности разные танки одной компановки.
Можно некоторые решения с новога использовать для старого,
например защиту и прочие детали, но не более того.
Интересное фото: "Пума" с "Карпет" входит в Бейт-Ханун, 22.06.04:
http://www.fresh.co.il/dcforum/Army/10330.html
http://www.fresh.co.il/dcforum/Army/10330.html
"Намера" - in, Stryker - out?
http://www.fresh.co.il/dcforum/Army/10576.html
According to JDW, the IDF has abandoned the plans to buy at least 200 Strykers for two infantry brigades. The purchase was strongly supported by Maj Gen Yiftah Ron-Tal, but the newly revised Kela 2008 five-year plan by the IDF General Staff deletes it from the purchase list.
The General Staff concludes that the Stryker is "a controversial platform" that lacks the protection level sought by the IDF. The GS also said that to make it suitable for the urban warfare the IDF is experiencing, the Stryker would require considerable amounts of additional armour.
Instead the Ground Forces Command received funds to develop a new heavy APC, based either on decomissioned Merkava 1 and 2 or newly produced Merkava 4 chassis. The HAPC has been given the name Nemerah, meaning Tigress.
The IDF will also consider upgrading more M113 APCs in addition to the 50 allready ordered. The purchase of more than 100 KMW Dingo 2 4x4 has also been approved. The Dingo will be produced by Textron M&L S in the USA.
An artist's impression of the Nemerah/Tigress HAPC by the Israeli MoD is also showed in the JDW. The impression shows a HAPC based on a taller Merkava hull, almost like the Merkava ARRV, with two 7.62mm MG mounted on the commanders and gunners hatch and a single OWS immediately behind these. Brig Gen Nir Amir, Israeli MoD tank programme manager, is quoted on saying that "the IDF took the decision a few weeks ago to develop the Tigress. Currently, one prototype is being built using a Merkava 1 chassis that has been withdrawn from service. This will be completed in a few months." Nir Amir also said that "compared to the Achzarit APC, the Tigress will have better protection, more room in the rear and a larger rear door."
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http://www.fresh.co.il/vBulletin/showthread.php?t=24871
http://www.fresh.co.il/dcforum/Army/10576.html
According to JDW, the IDF has abandoned the plans to buy at least 200 Strykers for two infantry brigades. The purchase was strongly supported by Maj Gen Yiftah Ron-Tal, but the newly revised Kela 2008 five-year plan by the IDF General Staff deletes it from the purchase list.
The General Staff concludes that the Stryker is "a controversial platform" that lacks the protection level sought by the IDF. The GS also said that to make it suitable for the urban warfare the IDF is experiencing, the Stryker would require considerable amounts of additional armour.
Instead the Ground Forces Command received funds to develop a new heavy APC, based either on decomissioned Merkava 1 and 2 or newly produced Merkava 4 chassis. The HAPC has been given the name Nemerah, meaning Tigress.
The IDF will also consider upgrading more M113 APCs in addition to the 50 allready ordered. The purchase of more than 100 KMW Dingo 2 4x4 has also been approved. The Dingo will be produced by Textron M&L S in the USA.
An artist's impression of the Nemerah/Tigress HAPC by the Israeli MoD is also showed in the JDW. The impression shows a HAPC based on a taller Merkava hull, almost like the Merkava ARRV, with two 7.62mm MG mounted on the commanders and gunners hatch and a single OWS immediately behind these. Brig Gen Nir Amir, Israeli MoD tank programme manager, is quoted on saying that "the IDF took the decision a few weeks ago to develop the Tigress. Currently, one prototype is being built using a Merkava 1 chassis that has been withdrawn from service. This will be completed in a few months." Nir Amir also said that "compared to the Achzarit APC, the Tigress will have better protection, more room in the rear and a larger rear door."
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http://www.fresh.co.il/vBulletin/showthread.php?t=24871
Israel considers Merkava-based heavy APC
ROBIN HUGHES JDW Deputy News Editor
London
Additional reporting by Peter Felstead JDW Editor
London
Date Posted: 25-Jun-2004
The Israeli Ministry of Defence (MoD) is considering the development of a new heavy armoured personnel carrier (APC) dubbed Nemerah ( Tigress), based on the chassis of the Merkava main battle tank (MBT).
The development is seen as a cost-effective solution for a new heavy APC for the Israel Defence Force (IDF) in light of budgetary restrictions. It has been given added impetus following recent IDF losses in the Gaza Strip.
The IDF decided in May to limit the use of its widely deployed M113 APCs in the Gaza Strip following two incidents in which 11 troops were killed in M113s attacked by rocket-propelled grenades (RPGs).
"There is no way we will stop using M113s, as it is our main platform," IDF Deputy Chief of Staff Maj Gen Gabi Ashkenazi told JDW last month. "[However], we will have to seek other solutions."
Brig Gen Nir Amir, MoD tank programme manager, told JDW: "The IDF took the decision a few weeks ago to develop the Tigress. Currently, one prototype is being built using a Merkava Mk 1 chassis that has been withdrawn from service. This will be completed in a few months."
The IDF is currently phasing out its M60 and older Merkava Mk 1, with a view to eventually fielding an entirely modern Merkava fleet. "The Merkava project is a telescopic programme, with continuous improvements being made to each new production batch," Gen Amir said. "The Tigress concept reflects a philosophy in the MoD's Tank Management Programme to make the development of the Merkava as flexible as possible," he added. A Merkava-based armoured recovery vehicle prototype that has already been built is undergoing trials with the IDF.
Other defence sources in Israel have suggested that the MoD might decide to lower the production rate of the new Merkava Mk 4 and develop the Tigress on the Mk 4 chassis. However, this would depend on the production of a "critical mass of Mk 4 MBTs" before any such development of the Tigress.
MoD sources in Israel have, however, dismissed this as not feasible, given severe budgetary restraints and the fact the Tigress is still in the concept development phase.
Few details are currently available about the Tigress programme. However, Gen Amir told JDW that "compared to the Achzarit APC [which is based on a heavily modified Russian T-54/T-55 tank chassis], the Tigress will have better protection, more room in the rear and a larger rear door".
However, he noted: "We are very aware of the costs of such a development. If it proves to be too expensive, it will kill the programme."
ROBIN HUGHES JDW Deputy News Editor
London
Additional reporting by Peter Felstead JDW Editor
London
Date Posted: 25-Jun-2004
The Israeli Ministry of Defence (MoD) is considering the development of a new heavy armoured personnel carrier (APC) dubbed Nemerah ( Tigress), based on the chassis of the Merkava main battle tank (MBT).
The development is seen as a cost-effective solution for a new heavy APC for the Israel Defence Force (IDF) in light of budgetary restrictions. It has been given added impetus following recent IDF losses in the Gaza Strip.
The IDF decided in May to limit the use of its widely deployed M113 APCs in the Gaza Strip following two incidents in which 11 troops were killed in M113s attacked by rocket-propelled grenades (RPGs).
"There is no way we will stop using M113s, as it is our main platform," IDF Deputy Chief of Staff Maj Gen Gabi Ashkenazi told JDW last month. "[However], we will have to seek other solutions."
Brig Gen Nir Amir, MoD tank programme manager, told JDW: "The IDF took the decision a few weeks ago to develop the Tigress. Currently, one prototype is being built using a Merkava Mk 1 chassis that has been withdrawn from service. This will be completed in a few months."
The IDF is currently phasing out its M60 and older Merkava Mk 1, with a view to eventually fielding an entirely modern Merkava fleet. "The Merkava project is a telescopic programme, with continuous improvements being made to each new production batch," Gen Amir said. "The Tigress concept reflects a philosophy in the MoD's Tank Management Programme to make the development of the Merkava as flexible as possible," he added. A Merkava-based armoured recovery vehicle prototype that has already been built is undergoing trials with the IDF.
Other defence sources in Israel have suggested that the MoD might decide to lower the production rate of the new Merkava Mk 4 and develop the Tigress on the Mk 4 chassis. However, this would depend on the production of a "critical mass of Mk 4 MBTs" before any such development of the Tigress.
MoD sources in Israel have, however, dismissed this as not feasible, given severe budgetary restraints and the fact the Tigress is still in the concept development phase.
Few details are currently available about the Tigress programme. However, Gen Amir told JDW that "compared to the Achzarit APC [which is based on a heavily modified Russian T-54/T-55 tank chassis], the Tigress will have better protection, more room in the rear and a larger rear door".
However, he noted: "We are very aware of the costs of such a development. If it proves to be too expensive, it will kill the programme."
Вообще-то в 80-е гг была статья в JDW - точно такая же ПУ, как "Карпет", но стреляла дымовыми ракетами - быстрая постановка обширной дымовой завесы. Может что-то в этом роде?
Но вообще - похожа на "Карпет":
Но вообще - похожа на "Карпет":
Да почему? Именно сзади. Спереди видно место водителя (перескопы). То, что на Пуме спереди - возможно крепления для трала.